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    Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

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    The Great Splendini

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    Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:36 pm

    Holy Moly,

    I thought my Chinese visa application ended up in Einstein's Black Hole.

    I never heard back from them for weeks and weeks.

    But Tesla to the rescue!

    Through sheer magic, free energy, lightning bolts, they got back to me to apologize for the excrutiatingly long and futile and perplexing red tape from Hell process...

    There is still hope ... but still some red tape from hell hurdles ...

    But ... apparently my TEFL isn't goo enough ....

    Bwahahahaha ....

    It's a fucking CELTA for Christ's sake.

    They're asking for a GRADE 5 120-Hour TEFL.

    Apparently my CELTA is a GRADE 4.

    What the fuck??!!

    I don't even know what that means ...

    Maybe because I was never able to offer PROOF that it's a 120 hour TEFL?

    Where are Tesla and Batman when you fuckin' need them?

    Any idea, douchebag?
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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:52 am

    Fuck I dunno. Have you tried contacting Cambridge? Maybe you can get a letter or something out of them, though I'm sure that will take up a lot of phonework and time.

    I just got the CELTA a year ago. I thought there were only two kinds of CELTA, the normal one and the "blended CELTA" which is partially online. I just did a google search on level four and five CELTA and came up with nothing.

    My boat isn't much better. I was supposed to start work over two weeks ago. Now I'm hearing I have to wait until September 20th to get the stuff from China to apply. That means I apply after I get that stuff and the school is waiting on buying the ticket until they know it's in the bag. I'll be lucky to start by mid-autumn festival. Then my contract only runs til June. They say maybe they can keep me employed after that. I hope so. I owe money, and I have to earn enough to cover startup costs the year after if I don't stay on there or they kick me out over the South China Sea or N. Korea or whatever.

    I hit another delay. They said my passport photo is too blurry. Rolling Eyes I got it taken at Wal Mart FFS.






    _________________
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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:57 am

    I think you're right.  The government workers have been instructed to look for minute shit to deny paperwork over, just to be assholes.

    China is protectionist and doesn't want foreigners taking their jobs.  However, we all know the state of English education in China with local teachers.  I've had some that were so bad I needed to get talented students to help me communicate with them.


    Last edited by Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."
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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:09 am

    That and the CELTA is the most worthless thing I ever learned in my life.

    I'd already had a year and half of writing research papers just prior, so that was nothing.

    Their system adds extraneous layers that are unnecessary and just confuse the student.

    I've always been big on fostering student talk time, but their system expects the teacher to be so passive they do nothing but instruct and correct and manage, making the students practice entirely with each other. In the Chinese classroom they expect the teacher to interact with the group practice discussions and have some face to face with the teacher. CELTA just has you standing there quietly listening to everything, which doesn't fly in the Chinese market.

    I'll be right back to my old methods. I won't spend more than a minute or two on grammar instruction if I don't have to. And I won't rely on phonemes to correct pronunciation.

    Engage the students in discussing their personal interests. Use topical dialogues and base role-plays off of them. Prepare topical discussion questions for group work. Assign reading and writing as homework. That's it. With kids you can make it more flashy/gamey.

    Anything else is a load of horseshit. Grammar, pronunciation, and vocab instruction should be very short and to the point, not taking up half the class. Same with doing textbook exercises in class. They drill all that stuff already. As the FT the best thing you do for them is get them using what they already know in practical application.



    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."
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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:12 am

    I get fantastic results using those simple methods. I was in high demand from private students, children and adults, just from doing that. My school was making a bloody fortune off of me. My system is far superior to CELTA and gets better results.

    The other teachers pretty much stood there and talked through 3/4 of the class, killing the time.


    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."

    The Great Splendini

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:59 am

    Yeah, they're getting incredibly picky. It can be denied for the strangest reason, so don't put all your eggs in one basket. Apply elsewhere.

    I just think it's a new bureaucratic system and it will be confusing for a while.

    I just replied and asked if Grade 4 and Grade 5 TEFL is a govt created system.

    CELTA and another one are generally considered the "best" TEFL certificates because they are standardized. ie the schools offering it can't get too relaxed. they have to follow a curriculum.

    The only differences I am aware of are some of the TEFLs are done over several months rather than intensive.

    Then, there is a DELTA, which is a follow-up to CELTA. I have rarely seen a school asking for a DELTA. It's only for management positions maybe. I doubt they are requiring everyone to have a DELTA now ... can't even remember what it stands for.

    I maybe only use 10-20% from the CELTA. I don't stand there and talk for an hour. That's why like English teaching as opposed to teaching anything else. It's activity-based.



    The Great Splendini

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:50 am

    I'm really not sure what the reasons are for this visa shit.

    But there was an anti-foreigner rap song ... it practically advocated attacking foreigners ... why does the Chinese govt invite foreigners to work there and not ban these hate speech songs?

    Not to mention the internet might get much more tightly controlled.

    VPNs might not work.

    Oh and you cannot register on a forum anymore in China without using your real name beginning October. Check TBJ to see if they implement this.


    The Great Splendini

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:14 am

    ,
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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:37 am

    Chinese government is protectionist and wants to keep foreigners out.  The demand for native speaking English teachers, OTOH, is sky high.  It's the schools that want us, not the government.

    I don't have $5,000 to drop on a DELTA.  CELTA is fine for China.  As they continue to deport all the degreeless candidates, demand will only continue to rise.

    I applied for hundreds of jobs online.  It's like shooting all my energies off into the void.

    This job fronts the airfare and provides accommodation, so my eggs are set in the only practical basket I could find.  After Thailand, I'm certainly not going to head anywhere and just "look for something."  I can't afford to.  The only place where that actually works is Cambodia.  Used to work in Thai, but when I got there, their expat site was running articles saying shit like "for the first time ever, even qualified ESL teachers are unable to find work in Thailand."  Then I still managed to get a job and it was bullshit.  I spent a fortune on hotels and travels and TIME running around to their bullshit schools.  That cost me a lot of money.  Then I did the online thing, but it was far from stable, and from I what I hear the teachers there aren't getting hours now.  SE Asia sucks, and sorry RB but I get the feeling that includes Taiwan, from the job ads I've read and the correspondence I've had.

    We're in a low paying field that demands professional qualifications.  To top that off, we're expected to relocate and put down on airfare and housing while we wait a month and a half to get our first payday.  That's thousands of dollars.  It's no wonder demand is so high, especially now that they're scrutinizing all the diplomas.  That's eliminating over half the work force in China for ESL.  To top that off, those of us who can tolerate living and working there are few and far between.  Demand is going to continue to rise.  I'm hoping that I can pay back my debt this year and save up a nest-egg to relocate to greener pastures at the end of it.  I should be able to.  The salary is 12k RMB, which sounds like shit, but I'll have housing and bills and airfare covered.  Baijiu costs pennies and smokes are cheap so what am I gonna spend it all on?  Nothing really.  I might buy a bike or something but nothing over 1k RMB.  I've got a couple grand in debt to pay back and a nest-egg to save up. All doable.  I'm set for 18-20 teaching hours and I'll have no commute to deal with.  That beats the hell out of anything I could hope to find here.

    If the working conditions are shitty, I'm sure I can suck it up with such low hours.  As is the school has promised me a dedicated workstation, assistant, etc.  It's a town way out in fuck all but they have some industry and the school looks pretty nice.  So there's a good chance it will be easier to deal with than the non-stop shortsighted bullshit I have so much experience with in Beijing.

    I'll go in, conduct my 18 lessons, make them fun and easy, praise the students and the school, give high marks, etc.  Then I'll spend the rest of my week doing what I like most, which is fuck all.


    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."

    The Great Splendini

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:42 am

    He just got back to me.

    Forget the Grade 4 and Grade 5 shit.

    All they need is PROOF that your TEFL is a 120 hour thing.

    But it doesn't say on the certificate. Not mine anyway.

    So you need some other proof.

    If you still have the syllabus of the course, you might need to submit it.

    I don't have it.

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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:14 am

    Shit. I don't have that either, just the certificate and the prelimary certificate. The rest of my paperwork from there got lost in the shuffle. I'll sift through what I got when I get the chance. It just seems dumb to me. Aren't all the CELTA programs 120 hours? And CELTA is the industry standard. But this is China we're dealing with. Rolling Eyes


    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."
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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:21 am

    I just checked my e-copies.

    Upon finishing the program they gave me a "preliminary certificate" which says "attended 120 of 120 hours" on it.  It also lists the dates I attended.  Seems crazy that was a full year ago.

    The proper CELTA certificate came a month or so later.  It says "level 5" but there's no mention of the hours.

    Scour google and talk to your agents about solutions I guess. You can't be the first.


    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."

    The Great Splendini

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    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:01 pm

    ok, well i guess they're going based on more recent documentation.

    mine is much older and they didn't have that and i didn't get any document stating it was 120 hours.

    it was so long ago, i'm not even sure they'll give me one now.

    or it might take weeks to get it.

    but yes, ALL CELTAS are 120 hours, but they don't know that.

    anyway, at least you're covered there.

    so it's not that bad. if you get all your ducks in a row, you should get your papers.

    just be patient.




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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:53 am

    Google around. You can't be the first. This problem (and it's solution) may be out there buried pages down in a google search.



    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."

    The Great Splendini

    Posts : 5138
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:04 am

    They need a document to prove that it's a 120 hour class.

    So my first attempt will be to contact the place where I took the CELTA and ask them if they can send me something.


    The Great Splendini

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  The Great Splendini on Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:51 pm

    I wouldn't say the chinese govt doesn't want us there.

    But the protectionism comes in the form of visas.

    Because if they gave us "business visas" where we could work independently, this would take business away from the schools. So the visas have to be tightly controlled to protect the local schools.

    If we had our own visas and could come and go as we please, it would be greatly beneficial to us.

    We could set up shop wherever we wanted and over time accumulate enough privates. It's almost impossible to be unemployed there with so many people learning English.

    But we need to be slaves to these visas and school-masters.

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    Psioncy

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    Re: Visa Not Denied .... Resurrected from the Dead .. But Still Some Problems

    Post  Psioncy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:00 am

    I think the Chinese government is more xenophobic than you give them credit for.

    Yeah, I'm always pro doing the same shit to Chinese visa holders in the US.  Locking them to an employer, strict enforcement w/ fines and jail for infractions, registering within 24 hrs with the local police, "anti-foriegner crackdowns," and all the shit we have to put up with.

    People say "Oh, but that's the Chinese government not the people.  We can't punish the people..."

    Sure we can!  They're THE SAME PEOPLE as what make up the government.  Are the Chinese people out their protesting all this maltreatment of foreigners?  Fuck no.  They're applauding it while enjoying the all the benefits the west offers them.  If we started reciprocating policy, Chinese policy would change real fast.

    Unfortunately we get the fuck you treatment in deference to minority concerns whether in home country or abroad.


    _________________
    "It's all part of the plan."
    "What is the plan?"
    "I kind of make the plan up as I go."
    "That's not really a plan then."
    "Okay, so it's not a plan. Look, I'm not good with plans."

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